I'm a novice glider pilot thinking of a Speed Astir II B. Any thoughts on this
aircraft?
Thanks!
David

define "novice".. if you have any time in "high performance" gliders.. then
have fun... it's a great glider.. they did not call it "speed" for it's
looks..

any consistent flying in glass birds and you should be able to handle the
Speed Astir..

BT

"Flyhighdave" > wrote in message
...
> I'm a novice glider pilot thinking of a Speed Astir II B. Any thoughts on
this
> aircraft?
> Thanks!
> David

In my case "novice" means about 20 training flights & a few solo flights in a
Grob 103 II A. I guess I'm really just a beginner!
David

I would consider something else. Speed Astir II's are
not only misleading with their name, it is also one
of the worst looking gliders around (bar the PW-5 of
course).



At 05:06 10 December 2003, Btiz wrote:
>define 'novice'.. if you have any time in 'high performance'
>gliders.. then
>have fun... it's a great glider.. they did not call
>it 'speed' for it's
>looks..
>
>any consistent flying in glass birds and you should
>be able to handle the
>Speed Astir..
>
>BT
>
>'Flyhighdave' wrote in message
...
>> I'm a novice glider pilot thinking of a Speed Astir
>>II B. Any thoughts on
>this
>> aircraft?
>> Thanks!
>> David
>
>
>

In article >,
(Flyhighdave) wrote:

> In my case "novice" means about 20 training flights & a few solo flights in a
> Grob 103 II A. I guess I'm really just a beginner!
> David

Since no one so far has offered much in the way of a flight report on
the Speed (dis)Aster. I'll tell you what I remember from my two flights.

Thing is built like a tank. Heavy wings. Maybe heavier than LS-3 wings.
Typical Grob pain-in-the-ass assembly problems. Maybe not too much of a
problem once you get the hang of fitting it all together. Did I mention
that the wings are heavy? I have not flown a PIK-20, but I get the
impression that the PIK and the Grob are somewhat similar in handling
and performance.

Cockpit is long but narrow at the hips due to the control system tunnels
on each side. Sorta pinched my 195 lb butt a little. Otherwise, it was
comfortable to fly.

I thought the Speed that I flew handled pretty well. Lots more stable
than my 301 Libelle. Controls not heavy and not too light. Negative
flaps resulted in rapid acceleration. Both my flights in the Speed were
on very weak lift days, but it seemed to thermal OK for a heavy ship.
Probably not a bad ship on strong days. However, I've been told that the
stiff wings, and they are very stiff, hinder it's performance in rough
air for some reason. Glide path control was pretty typical for a glass
ship. I seem to remember that the divebrakes were not quite as effective
as on the103.

Other stuff:

Grob finish usually holds up better than most.

The two piece canopy is OK except for a couple of annoyances. One is
that if left open, it tends to focus sunlight on the headrest which can
set the glider on fire. Two is that the fixed forward part of the canopy
makes it hard to work on the instruments or work on anything up in the
nose.

The tail dolly is a wheel on a post. It fits up into a hole in the
bottom of the tail boom. Falls off all by itself when the tail is
lifted. This is a good thing if you forget to remove the tail dolly
before flight. Take if from one who knows, leaving the tail dolly on
makes for an interesting start to the ground roll.

Wing skins form the hinge for the wing control surfaces. No mylar needed.

My personal choice was to go for a lighter glider that was easier to
assembly and performed better in weak conditions. The Speed would be
pretty far down my list of preferences. But, for the right price, it
would be an OK ship.

Earlier, Wallace Berry > wrote:

> ...Wing skins form the hinge for the wing
> control surfaces. No mylar needed...

A minor nitpick:

That is the way it looks from the outside. However, structurally, the
upper wing skin does not actually support the aileron. Inside the wing
there are several support linkage gadgets that transfer lift loading
between the aileron and the wing. I can't remember if they're four-bar
links or track-and-roller arrangements. However, these gadgets are
carefully arranged so that the effective hinge axis coincides with the
surface of the upper wing skin. There are other sailplanes that use
this sort of system; the flaps of the Slingsby T65 Vega come to mind.

It is a compelling system, since as Wallace points out it needs no
mylar and no internal curtain sealing. However, what I've seen of one
or two Speed Astirs in service is that the control loads tend to be
greater than in more conventional systems, especially as they age.
Also, the flexible skin portion tends not to hold its surface finish
well; I've seen cracking and bubbling in this area on both Vegas and
Speed Astirs. It's also hard to achieve the kind of surface travels
that it takes to make high-aspect ailerons do their job effectively.

Getting off-topic, there _is_ at least one Chris Heintz powered
airplane that does actually support the aileron on a flexible portion
of wing skin. For more information, see:

http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/ht-aileron.html

Thanks, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com

I guess I'm qualified to answer this one. I own one, although it is a
II not a IIB. The difference is basically a longer fuselage to
accomodate longer pilots.

I have about 40hrs in mine. I'd only had a couple of short flights in
a Club Libelle, a flight or three in Pilatus, and a a couple of
flights in a Twin Astir before jumping in the Speed.

I should preface this with the fact that mine has winglets fitted, and
I have not flown it without.

Take-off.
Be awake when aero-tow launching. Set Flaps full negative and pull
into +2 once you can feel some aileron control coming on. In the first
part of ground roll , use rudder and if you can help it, little
aileron to keep wings level.
Once you mastered this , the rest is a piece of cake. Make sure the
tow plane uses a long rope. Short ropes mean more turbuence from the
tug, and prop wash will hit you early in the take-off roll. You don't
want that....trust me.

Flying

Maybe the winglets make a big difference. i don't know. However,
anyone who has flown mine lands with big smile on their face. It's a
great performing glider, and I have similar climb rates to other
gliders on the feild. Don't thermal too slow. About 48-52 knots is
good for me. Where the name Speed disAstir came from eludes me.

Landing.

Landing is a dream. Follow the Flight manual and you won't go wrong.
Full Flap at end of downwind, use brakes sparingly close to the ground
as full flap, full brake will make for an early (and vertically fast)
arrival

Would I buy another? If I could find a IIB in good condition, and
funds were an issue I would not hesitate. You will pay about US$10000
less than an equivalent performing glider.

................and yes, it's a bitch to rig.


Cheers

Mark



Owain Walters > wrote in message >...
> I would consider something else. Speed Astir II's are
> not only misleading with their name, it is also one
> of the worst looking gliders around (bar the PW-5 of
> course).
>
>
>
> At 05:06 10 December 2003, Btiz wrote:
> >define 'novice'.. if you have any time in 'high performance'
> >gliders.. then
> >have fun... it's a great glider.. they did not call
> >it 'speed' for it's
> >looks..
> >
> >any consistent flying in glass birds and you should
> >be able to handle the
> >Speed Astir..
> >
> >BT
> >
> >'Flyhighdave' wrote in message
> ...
> >> I'm a novice glider pilot thinking of a Speed Astir
> >>II B. Any thoughts on
> this
> >> aircraft?
> >> Thanks!
> >> David
> >
> >
> >

I must point out that using the words 'speed' and 'Astir'
in the same sentence is misuse of the english language.
:-)

At 22:42 10 December 2003, Mark wrote:
>I guess I'm qualified to answer this one. I own one,
>although it is a
>II not a IIB. The difference is basically a longer
>fuselage to
>accomodate longer pilots.
>
>I have about 40hrs in mine. I'd only had a couple of
>short flights in
>a Club Libelle, a flight or three in Pilatus, and a
>a couple of
>flights in a Twin Astir before jumping in the Speed.
>
>I should preface this with the fact that mine has winglets
>fitted, and
>I have not flown it without.
>
>Take-off.
>Be awake when aero-tow launching. Set Flaps full negative
>and pull
>into +2 once you can feel some aileron control coming
>on. In the first
>part of ground roll , use rudder and if you can help
>it, little
>aileron to keep wings level.
>Once you mastered this , the rest is a piece of cake.
>Make sure the
>tow plane uses a long rope. Short ropes mean more turbuence
>from the
>tug, and prop wash will hit you early in the take-off
>roll. You don't
>want that....trust me.
>
>Flying
>
>Maybe the winglets make a big difference. i don't know.
>However,
>anyone who has flown mine lands with big smile on their
>face. It's a
>great performing glider, and I have similar climb rates
>to other
>gliders on the feild. Don't thermal too slow. About
>48-52 knots is
>good for me. Where the name Speed disAstir came from
>eludes me.
>
>Landing.
>
>Landing is a dream. Follow the Flight manual and you
>won't go wrong.
>Full Flap at end of downwind, use brakes sparingly
>close to the ground
>as full flap, full brake will make for an early (and
>vertically fast)
>arrival
>
>Would I buy another? If I could find a IIB in good
>condition, and
>funds were an issue I would not hesitate. You will
>pay about US$10000
>less than an equivalent performing glider.
>
>................and yes, it's a bitch to rig.
>
>
>Cheers
>
>Mark
>
>
>
>Owain Walters wrote in message news:...
>> I would consider something else. Speed Astir II's
>>are
>> not only misleading with their name, it is also one
>> of the worst looking gliders around (bar the PW-5
>>of
>> course).
>>
>>
>>
>> At 05:06 10 December 2003, Btiz wrote:
>> >define 'novice'.. if you have any time in 'high performance'
>> >gliders.. then
>> >have fun... it's a great glider.. they did not call
>> >it 'speed' for it's
>> >looks..
>> >
>> >any consistent flying in glass birds and you should
>> >be able to handle the
>> >Speed Astir..
>> >
>> >BT
>> >
>> >'Flyhighdave' wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> I'm a novice glider pilot thinking of a Speed Astir
>> >>II B. Any thoughts on
>> this
>> >> aircraft?
>> >> Thanks!
>> >> David
>> >
>> >
>> >
>

I had one for 2 years

+Flies well
+clims well if no water
+goes fast if loadd

-weaker climb rate with water compared to others
-lack of comfort,narrow fuselage
-difficult takeoff on tail/crosswind
-difficult to sell
-difficult to work on instruments

"Flyhighdave" > wrote in message
...
> I'm a novice glider pilot thinking of a Speed Astir II B. Any thoughts on
this
> aircraft?
> Thanks!
> David